Curse

samifly · Jun 23, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Zealous outperforms other mods in energy management. Elemental outperforms other mods for damage vs warriors. Vampiric outperforms other mods on everything else.

You use Sundering for damage. It does not outperform Elemental mods against warriors. It does not outperform Vampiric against anything. It is a broken mod. It is not fine as is.

If you know how to use Vampiric, you will not lose a single point of health and in some circumstances will gain health. Again, there is no drawback to Vampiric if your F1-4 keys are working properly and even if it was just "+3/5 unconditional damage bonus" and "-1 health regan" with no lifestealing/gaining (ie, a real -1 health regan), it would still be the prefered mod over sundering. That shows itis not balanced.

bolded for empahsis - thats the case with everything in the game. "If you know how" manythings can happen. Vamp does have a drawback - you cannot say -1 regen is not a drawback, and sundering doesnt. It doesnt really matter for this discussion the players abilty. Vamp - max damage, penalty. Sundering meh damage, no penalty. you are choosing when you use sundering to lower your damage output so you dont have the drawback.

BigTru · Jun 23, 2006, 08:10 AM // 08:10

So the drawback is a person's own stupidity?

The "drawback" should be balanced with it's advantage, no?

Cottage Pie · Jun 23, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

BigTru, you state the other mods have no disadvantage, when infact they do, they are specific, for certain situations, and you must know how to use them, and it's well known that sundering is used as the catch-all mod as it has no negative effects and has big numbers, and is graded by rarity, it's basically a little bit more damage with no brains required ^_^ the people who use it are broken, not the mod ^_^

BigTru · Jun 23, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Why would they balance a mod based on horrible players? That's like saying they should nerf Mending because it's dominating the metagame of rank 4000-5000 guilds or buff Eviscerate because it sees no use by those guilds.

Don Zardeone · Jun 23, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Why would they balance a mod based on horrible players?

The same reason we have safety labels on everything, so we don't hurt ourselves!

Someone somewhere said that the only way to beat stupidity is by taking off the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself.

HOWEVER
Sundering has a use. When you are fully charged up with energy and adrenaline and you are chasing a target that constantly runs away.
Furious is useless, vamp will drain your hp, zealous will have zero effect, elemental is only good if you're chasing something that has less resistance vs that and barbed/crippling/wahetevr don't apply. THEN Sundering is the only answer.
Sundering will give you a %chance to do some extra damage on a lucky hit. Vamp would still do more damage but the degen in this case becomes a disadvantage for you since you're not getting enough hits in.

Capische?

edit: eh try to not notice the part where I say that a lucky sundering hit does less damage than a vamp hit.. I r nub

GranDeWun · Jun 23, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

An important consideration:
Does the armor pen of sundering apply to skill attacks? In other words, if I hit with Final Thrust for, say, 70 damage AND I get the armor pen of sundering on that attack, then the benefit is enormously magnified, which would make sundering more attractive.

JR · Jun 23, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zardeone

Sundering will give you a %chance to do some extra damage on a lucky hit. Vamp would still do more damage but the degen in this case becomes a disadvantage for you since you're not getting enough hits in.

I would run a Vampiric Hilt if it didn't actually count as life stealing. I would certainly not be bothered about running around with -1 degen on me for a little while.

And if you are fully charged up and chasing a kiting character, then you either need to switch targets or take more snares.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranDeWun

An important consideration:
Does the armor pen of sundering apply to skill attacks?

No, it doesn't.

BigTru · Jun 23, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

HOWEVER
Sundering has a use. When you are fully charged up with energy and adrenaline and you are chasing a target that constantly runs away.
Furious is useless, vamp will drain your hp, zealous will have zero effect, elemental is only good if you're chasing something that has less resistance vs that and barbed/crippling/wahetevr don't apply.

Then I'd either A) Switch to the condition mod because Sundering does nothing for attack skills, or B) wait till I get close enough and switch to vamp just before I hit, or more likely C) run with Vampiric because -1 health degan is NOTHING.

Phades · Jun 23, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

How about make Sundering Penetrate 10% Armor always?
Would that be better?

Yes, lets make the strength stat completely obscelete.

Rikimaru · Jun 23, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

That wouldn't make strength obsolete, it'd stack with strength.

Tien ak · Jun 24, 2006, 12:39 PM // 12:39

so much squabbling

ok all this talk of making sundering permant...no thats to much.

I still want to know if all the sundering skills stack beacuse if they don't then thats the reall proberlem.

ubermancer · Jun 24, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

As most of you know, Sundering STILL less deals damage than the Vampiric mod.

Not on a Hammer.

Mercenary One · Jun 24, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Any mastery +1/20% ftw :P

:::End Transmission:::

JR · Jun 24, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Not on a Hammer.

Is reading hard for you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy

Against an AL 60 target w/ perfect vamp your damage increases over base by:
sword 8.8%
axe 8.4%
hammer 9.7%
bow 12.4%

Against an AL 60 target w/ perfect 20/20 sundering your damage increases over base by 4.6% for all weapons. Much better than the 1.1% a 10/10 sundering mod would get, but still well below vamp.

vamp vs AL 70
sword 10.4%
axe 10.0%
hammer 11.6%
bow 14.7%

sundering 20/20 vs AL 70 compared to base all weapons 6.4% (10/10 = 1.3%)

vamp vs AL 100
sword 17.6%
axe 16.9%
hammer 19.4%
bow 24.8%

sundering 20/20 vs AL 100 compared to base all weapons 8.3% (10/10 = 1.9%)

EndoftheSyringe · Jun 24, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

But if they throw out the mod we will have no one to giggle at

I'd rather have a bunch of POS mods to add variety between players than everyone running around using vamp.

Phades · Jun 24, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

That wouldn't make strength obsolete, it'd stack with strength.

Armor penetration does not stack.

Rogmar · Jun 24, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

That wouldn't make strength obsolete, it'd stack with strength.

Strength is already obsolete, it's only good for Sprint/Rush + Shield
If there was a non-elite increased run speed in tactics, tactics would become the new Primary attribute

Lets Get to Healing · Jun 25, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

i think its odd sunerding got a buff and furious didnt.

BigTru · Jul 15, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

While I think Furious needs a buff too, it DOES serve a purpose, it's the best weapon mod for gaining adrenaline, unlike Sundering which is the best at nothing.